tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post115707995864847737..comments2023-03-26T03:50:25.501-04:00Comments on David's Secret Blog: From The BrothersJudd Archives: BETTER TO FLOG A DEAD HORSE THAN A LIVE LIONUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-28855781896557249112007-05-21T17:38:00.000-04:002007-05-21T17:38:00.000-04:00That cove who wrote "A Sea of Words" was a deep ol...That cove who wrote "A Sea of Words" was a deep old file for the most part, but he missed some basics.<BR/><BR/>Notice that "scrub" isn't even in it? And what would be a more likely slang expression that a modern veck would want to look up?<BR/><BR/>Sorry. Switched to Nadsat there for a moment.Big Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11838641424883179148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157341289754085742006-09-03T23:41:00.000-04:002006-09-03T23:41:00.000-04:00I don't think that it was so much that Heinlein go...I don't think that it was so much that Heinlein got worse, it was more that they stopped editing him.<BR/><BR/>I enjoyed <I>Number of the Beast</I> on the first read-through, but even then I recognized that if I weren't already a Heinlein fan, that book wouldn't have been the best introduction to him.<BR/><BR/>A few years later, on a whim, I edited the book to exclude some of the more superfluous conversations, explanations, and scenes, and there's actually a pretty good action/adventure yarn hidden in there.<BR/><BR/>If you look at my favorites, such as <I>Tunnel in the Sky</I>, <I>Friday</I>, <I>The Door into Summer</I>, and <I>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress</I>, I don't think that they're fundamentally different from his last few works - it's just that they're much <I>leaner</I> than those last ones.Oroboroushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01710250012500728430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157319078644859232006-09-03T17:31:00.000-04:002006-09-03T17:31:00.000-04:00I have and it's not.There are two exceptions.First...I have and it's not.<BR/><BR/>There are two exceptions.<BR/><BR/>First, if, like me, you have a completeness mania. Once I've committed to a series or an author, I hardly ever abandon them, no matter how awful they get. I will probably read all of the truly meretricious "Sword of Truth" books and I kept reading Heinlein even after he lost his mind.<BR/><BR/>Second, if you are interested in the mechanics of writing. The book includes O'Brian's handwritten draft so you can follow along with the process of writing. You can see, for example, that when writing about a dinner party, he sketched out the table and noted where each character was sitting.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157315548012166342006-09-03T16:32:00.000-04:002006-09-03T16:32:00.000-04:00Have you read the unfinished 21st book - and if so...Have you read the unfinished 21st book - and if so, is it worth it?Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157201273516467542006-09-02T08:47:00.000-04:002006-09-02T08:47:00.000-04:00Brit: I once read that O'Brian said that he wante...Brit: I once read that O'Brian said that he wanted to write 20 books in the series and come full circle at the end. Strangely enough, that's my reading of <I>Blue at the Mizzen</I>. At the end of the book, like at the beginning of <I>M&C</I>, Jack is promoted. The last few paragraphs of <I>BatM</I> are ambiguous, and allow for the reading that Jack and Stephen have split; with Jack going on to the Cape to take up his command and Stephen staying with the South American revolutionaries. It is the perfect end to the series.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157191531716432972006-09-02T06:05:00.000-04:002006-09-02T06:05:00.000-04:00The end of The Letter of Marque struck me as being...The end of The Letter of Marque struck me as being a suitable ending for the series - Jack gets his naval commission back, Maturin is back with Diana, there's no real cliff-hanger.<BR/><BR/>I'm very glad O'Brian carried on, since I could happily have read the series indefinitely, but I wonder if he originally intended to?Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157155302918991052006-09-01T20:01:00.000-04:002006-09-01T20:01:00.000-04:00David:Your review of the Aubrey series is a brilli...David:<BR/><BR/>Your review of the Aubrey series is a brilliant piece of writing in its own right, never mind it taught me a slew of things about the series that had simply never occurred to me.<BR/><BR/>I guess I'm just going to have to start over.<BR/><BR/>Given that I am far less discerning, I was completely untroubled by the limited opportunity for character development, just so long as he kept cranking the books out. <BR/><BR/><BR/>M Ali:<BR/><BR/>Per Brit's suggestion, I bought "A Sea of Words" which serves as a glossary for the series, as well as providing historical background. I struggled with the terminology at first, until I learned to suss that, as Brit said, this sequence of words means "someone fell from something high onto something hard."<BR/><BR/>Also, once I became familiar with the dialect, I found the books to be occasionally very funny, in a very British way.Hey Skipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10798930502187234974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157121142485445022006-09-01T10:32:00.000-04:002006-09-01T10:32:00.000-04:00Two moments in the series that gave me a jolt:1) A...Two moments in the series that gave me a jolt:<BR/><BR/>1) After their advisor gets eaten by crocodiles (I think it's The Ionian Mission but haven't got them to hand), it turns out that he'd stolen Jack's prized chelengk. Aubrey says simply: "Oh the poor fellow!" as he pockets it.<BR/><BR/>2) The horribly abrupt death of Bonden in the penultimate book. After all that, he gets one half of a sentence. <BR/><BR/>And the best running joke is Aubrey's inability to re-tell accurately, and to refrain from uncontrollable mirth whilst attempting to re-tell, Maturin's immortal pun about the dog-watch being cur-tailed.Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157118964209342672006-09-01T09:56:00.000-04:002006-09-01T09:56:00.000-04:00Yes, I suppose that is an angle. Aubrey does matur...Yes, I suppose that is an angle. Aubrey does mature further after his financial disasters and his arrest, and then there are his affairs, illegitimate son, and various spats with Sophie, but yes, after the first few books Maturin is the interesting character.<BR/><BR/>M Ali:<BR/><BR/>The first book is the worst for the nautical jargon. O'Brian rarely compromises even after that but soon you get used to it, and Maturin remains resolutely ignorant throughout the series, so the key things are always explained to him, and thus the reader.<BR/><BR/>I did however regret that the c**tsplice didn't reappear after Master and Commander.Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157117081453282742006-09-01T09:24:00.000-04:002006-09-01T09:24:00.000-04:00Ali: The advice generally given is to start with ...Ali: The advice generally given is to start with the second book, <I>Post Captain</I>, which is mostly landbound. After a while, the sailing terminology just sloughs off and, when it does matter, you can usually figure out that it simply means "He fell from something very high onto something very hard."<BR/><BR/>Brit: Then what do you do with <I>The Surgeon's Mate</I>?<BR/><BR/>If the first four books are to be considered a single novel, then the main character is Jack Aubrey. Those books are the story of the maturation of Jack from unruly, impatient, ungovernable Lieutenant into a sober, skilled, disciplined Post-Captain and family man. The final nail in young Jack's coffin is when older Jack must act as Commodore and command others. It is Jack's success at making this transition that makes Cochrane's failure so poignant.<BR/><BR/>For the next 16 books, Jack is pretty much unchanged and Maturin comes to the fore.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902329503560660425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32636283.post-1157101404966723952006-09-01T05:03:00.000-04:002006-09-01T05:03:00.000-04:00David:First, thanks for posting something about O'...David:<BR/><BR/>First, thanks for posting something about O'Brian. I could talk about this all day, and I've never really got my Aubrey thoughts in order, but here are a few of them:<BR/><BR/>There are two obvious justifications for the Austen comparison: the language and dialogue (concise, unpretentious but perfectly formed); and the human insights and domestic dramas of the gun room.<BR/><BR/>You say, <I>"O'Brian's great novel -- legitimately mentioned with Austen's great novels -- is the first four books, through The Mauritius Command. The other sixteen are simply extraordinarily well-written genre novels.</I><BR/><BR/>I think that's very nearly true, but not quite. For me, the heart, the essence, of the series is in books 4 and 5: The Mauritius Command and Desolation Island.<BR/><BR/>The first justifies the Austen-sur-mer tag as a study of the psychology of men, male heirarchy, and the odd ways of expressing bravery and cowardice - aside from Maturin, Lord Clonfert is the best character he created - and it bears comparison to anything Austen wrote about women.<BR/><BR/>Then comes <I>Desolation Island</I>, which is the first, and best, of what you might call the O'Brian 'genre': it's a mixture of spy novel, romantic intrigue, naval warfare, domestic warfare, chase movie and shipwreck/survival epic.<BR/><BR/>Then it is almost true that the rest of the series are novels in this same genre (but not quite - the exception is book 15, <I>Clarissa Oakes</I>, which is set on one long voyage with no battles and is pure Austen-sur-mer). Not that the extended genre series is a bad thing - there are few joys in life to touch immersing yourself in an O'Brian, with the spin-off CD playing soft and a nice glass of something beside you of an dank British winter's night.<BR/><BR/>But yes, you do wonder where O'Brian would have taken the series had he not died halfway through book 21. The characters do develop and mature, but nothing is resolved, which is both irritating and a blessing for the reader, since you get so attached to the Aubrey that it would seriously hurt to see him killed off.Brithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00390560583798960760noreply@blogger.com